Ep 94: The Role Of Armed Citizen
Episode 94
Published Nov 25, 2024
Last updated Feb 18, 2026
Duration: 32:29
Episode Summary
Armed citizens can potentially intervene to stop threats in some situations, but this role comes with significant risks and responsibilities.
Episode Notes
In this episode, our panel discusses the complex role of armed citizens in active threat situations. Key points include:
• The potential benefits and risks of armed citizen intervention
• The critical importance of proper training and ongoing skill maintenance
• Legal and ethical considerations for carrying and using firearms
• Proper interaction with law enforcement in post-incident scenarios
The experts emphasize that while armed citizens can potentially save lives, this role comes with significant responsibilities and risks. They stress the need for extensive training in firearm safety, legal issues, tactical decision-making, and post-incident procedures.
Key topics covered:
- Target discrimination and situational awareness
- Risks of misidentification by responding law enforcement
- Training recommendations for armed citizens
- Post-engagement responsibilities and expectations
- Liability considerations and legal obligations
This episode offers crucial information for armed citizens, law enforcement professionals, emergency responders, and anyone interested in public safety and self-defense issues. The experts provide valuable insights on the complexities of armed citizen intervention and the importance of proper preparation and training.
View this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/7cOCIOP1TmE
Transcript
Bill Godfrey:When it comes to active shooter events, you've probably heard the phrase, good guy with a gun. But what is the role of armed citizens in neutralizing an active shooter or a threat? That's today's topic, stick around.
Welcome to the Active Shooter Incident Management Podcast. My name is Bill Godfrey, your podcast host. I am joined by three of our other esteemed instructors here at the National Center for Integrated Emergency Response, Bruce Scott back in the house, like myself on the fire and EMS side. Bruce, good to have you.
Bruce Scott:
Thank you for letting me be here, Bill.
Bill Godfrey:
We got Ron Otterbacher of law enforcement side. Ron, good to have you in.
Ron Otterbacher:
Thanks for having me.
Bill Godfrey:
And the inimitable Billy Perry back in the house from the law enforcement side. Billy, good to see you as always.
Billy Perry:
Good to see you, my honor.
Bill Godfrey:
All right, so today's topic is talking about the role of armed citizens in neutralizing threats. And let's start with the basics. Now there's obviously not a ton of data, and I would say that most of this is probably anecdotal from a handful of stories. How effective are armed citizens in neutralizing threats generally? Just your opinions, your thoughts.
Billy Perry:
Well, not even anecdotally, we've had several instances in Jacksonville that they have interceded and stopped things. And before we go further, I wanna, I am a staunch constitutional rights guy. So if I say anything that seems counter to that, it's not. It's just, I am a strong constitutional rights person. And I think the second amendment is just as valid as the first and the fourth and the fifth and whatever. But that said, I think that they can be very effective. I think they can also be problematic.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay, so I'm curious, gonna come back to that one. Ron, what's your overall thought as we start?
Ron Otterbacher:
I look at the state of Florida. We just passed the constitutional carry law, which I'm not against. Again, I'm like Billy. But there is no component that requires a certain level of training. So although they may have a weapon, they may have bought that weapon a year ago, and now they can carry it, but they've never shot that weapon. And now they're trying to intercede in a situation where perhaps maybe required a little more training than they're capable of. And that's my fear. You don't know what level of training or what they're gonna do once they engage someone.
Have they decocked their weapon if it's got decocking mechanism? Have they cleared their weapon after they used it? What are other things aside from whoever they hit, good guy, bad guy, it doesn't matter. Those are all things that you're gonna have to broaden your perspective a little bit, and it's not just to focus on the good guy with a gun.
Bill Godfrey:
So Bruce, I know you and I in our personal lives may or may not often be armed, and we've spent some time on ranges. What are your thoughts just from the citizen perspective about the obligation of self-training if you're gonna put yourself in that position?
Bruce Scott:
I believe that I am not qualified to take on an attacker. I've never been in a shoot, don't shoot situation. I haven't learned how to quickly reload or to put my line of sight right, or look at the backdrop that I've heard Billy and Otter talk about what's going on behind those. So I would feel uncomfortable, even more uncomfortable in that position.
However, I think most of us would act, right? I feel like I would be totally unprepared, if you will, but I think I would have, I would feel like I needed to engage, just my sense of duty. But I shoot my weapons one, two, three times a year, not always the same ones. Sometimes I just have to figure it out again at the range, right, so that would be a bad time for me to try to be figuring it out.
So in answer to your question, do you have a certain level of responsibility by being somebody that carries a weapon? I think that's true. I think you should go through that training. I think you should go through those scenarios and Otter, one of you may be able to answer, is there, does local law enforcement offer that kind of training to a civilian, the shoot, don't shoot or any of that kind of training?
Billy Perry:
I think outside of something along the lines of a citizen's academy, no, 'cause they're so strapped for time and range space and everything else. I think they're trying to bring their own officers up to speed.
Bruce Scott:
Right, so as a civilian, if I wanted to get that kind of training, where could I go?
Billy Perry:
That's a good question. I would probably say one of the trainers, one of the, 'cause a lot of the tactical trainers open it up, like Ted Kennedy, Bill Rogers, open them up to citizenry. You can do that.
Ron Otterbacher:
You may check your local gun ranges. Some of them may provide more advanced training than other places.
Bill Godfrey:
I was gonna say, I worked at a, did some work with a range that offered some of that. And very much, Bruce, I agree with a lot of your sentiment and comments. I have done some of that training and done some of the drills. I mean, in the positions that we're in, we're afforded as fire EMS guys to be able to do a level of training that may not be available to ordinary citizens, but I still, I know I haven't had the level of training that the two of you guys had and would still feel that sense of responsibility to engage. But I think my mind would be working overtime about trying to remember everything and make a good decision. Now, Billy, you said it's both good and it can be problematic. Can you expound upon that a little bit?
Billy Perry:
I could expound on this for hours. And I will tell you-
Bill Godfrey:
We're a 30-minute podcast.
Billy Perry:
I get it, brother. And I'm gonna try to be judicious in my comments. But I'll tell you, and I teach a class second Friday of every month. I'll be teaching in the morning. And I use the analogy, I've been in multiple gun encounters, armed encounters. I've had a bunch of horrific diving accidents. I've had, we were just talking, I had sepsis, had a bunch of stuff. I even went through a horrific divorce. And nothing has come as close to killing me as my peers with a firearm. My peers.
Bill Godfrey:
We're talking about other law enforcement officers.
Billy Perry:
Other police officers. Inadvertently, I'm relatively certain.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, let's go with that.
Billy Perry:
That's what we're gonna go with. But that said, I think when you enter into an unknown and an unknown training realm, I think that can be also problematic. I think it can be amazing and it can end it if the viewers wanna Google the Dollar General shooting in Jacksonville, that's a perfect example. But I think it can be a problem also.
I'll give it to you. I work in a school, as we talk about, and I eat lunch with the teachers and the administrators every day. And we had just had a lockdown drill. And one of the teachers said, 'cause a lot of the teachers wanna carry, and that's a whole separate side topic. And one of the teachers, and I like him, he's a friend of mine. He said, "I don't understand why I can't have my nine "in my desk, and when somebody comes in the door, "I empty the whole clip," pet peeve, "into the door." And I said, "Well, congratulations. "You just gave reasons A through QQ "in that short little stint why you can't." And I think that falls into it, 'cause there's so much more to it than just aligning the sights and pressing the trigger.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Billy Perry:
And there's a whole bailiwick besides just aligning the sights and pressing the trigger.
Bill Godfrey:
There's a lot of risk for a citizen to engage in this. And I'm not just talking on the legal front, though I think we ought to talk about some of the big picture stuff. I don't wanna drill down too far into that. But there's the, one of the biggest risks I see is the potential to be mistaken by the first responding officers as being the attacker or a attacker.
Billy Perry:
You're only 1,000% right in that. And I say that because my team is a private guard now at a school. We wear, everything is emblazoned with security, because when I was with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, I taught active shooter to hundreds of classes. And out of the hundreds of classes, we did the normal curricula. And one of the scenarios is an off-duty officer. And of all the classes that I taught, the hundreds, one class did not shoot the off-duty officer.
And we've done everything. We had them in class A's, traffic vests, class A's with a traffic vest, badge around the neck, even the FBI thing where they orbited over their head, everything, and they all got shot. And the reason being is 'cause, and even law enforcement officers and all the law enforcement officers that are watching this know, discrimination is our challenge. And I drive that home with my team, face, whole body, hands, belt, waistline, and median ear and demeanor.
Bill Godfrey:
All right, I'm gonna slow you down 'cause I wanna make sure that we're clear what we're talking about. When you say discrimination, you're talking about-
Billy Perry:
Target discrimination.
Bill Godfrey:
Target discrimination, but slow down and say that once again of what are the things that a police officer is trained to look at to figure out if in his target discrimination, whether it's a bad guy or a good guy?
Billy Perry:
Generally, it's five steps, we incorporate six. I stole it from Jim Walters, one of our tactical commanders. Face, whole body, hands, belt / waistline, immediate area and demeanor. And the reason I look at face is 'cause if you don't, if you just go whole body, hands, belt, waistline, immediate area, and demeanor, I may not see Bruce. And if I look at face, I can say it's Bruce and I'm done. And I can move on.
And the reason we look at everything else, face, don't, okay, I don't know him. Whole body, what I'm, you know, and the discrimination process, and I want to emphasize this, and this is something that's been lost in a lot of law enforcement circles. We're not looking for reasons to shoot. We're looking for reasons not to. Whole body, do I see badges, markings, something showing, you know, hands, gun. Doesn't mean I just shoot because we're talking about a good guy with a gun and there are a lot of them. Just 'cause they got a gun in their hand doesn't mean they're necessarily bad. You know, belt/waistline, that's where badges are by the holster. Or if they don't have anything in their hands, do they have a gun stuck in their belt? I mean, so it can go either way, you know. And then the immediate area, is there something leaning against the wall in the immediate area or a gun down on a table? And their demeanor. There's a huge difference between, I'm so glad you're here, I need some help, and I'm glad you're here.
And we have to weigh all that. And I don't know that, you know, everybody can do that, truthfully. And in law enforcement, we struggle with it with a modicum of training. And I think citizenry, I think, you know, you're still, like Bruce and I were discussing earlier, you're still responsible for every shot.
Bill Godfrey:
Ron, what's your thoughts? What are some of the risks of armed citizen engaging?
Ron Otterbacher:
Again, I go back to level of training, but that level of training is not only for the armed citizens, the level of training for law enforcement.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Ron Otterbacher:
You know, we get quite a bit more training, but the vast majority of law enforcement officers will go through their entire career and never discharge their weapon. So how do we know how they're gonna react once they discharge their weapon? We don't. We hope the training kicks in. We hope everything that we provided to them for tools works out well, but we don't know. And the chances of an armed citizen having a more adverse reaction than a well-trained law enforcement officer is probably greater. Again, probably, 'cause we don't know. I think there's been amazing situation where citizens have intervened and taken care of the problem.
Billy Perry:
And saved lives.
Ron Otterbacher:
They did as well as any trained police officer could have done.
Bill Godfrey:
Absolutely.
Billy Perry:
100 Percent.
There are others where, you know, it's kind of a spray and pray thing where you're hoping you may hit some, we don't know to what level. So that's the consideration we have to have. And how can we secure the scene or scenario as best we can once we arrive? Because even if they did an outstanding job, do we want that person running around with their weapon? Think about it, when we get a law enforcement officer shot, what do we do? We wanna take their weapon so while they're getting treated, they're not thinking they're still being attacked.
So there's a lot of things that we may consider. And it's just expanded further because now we've got a citizen that intervened and we don't know. Yeah, they may be retired military and they may have more training than any law enforcement officer in that agency has. We just don't know. Or they could be, Jimmy just got a gun and he was in the right place, right time.
Bill Godfrey:
So before we leave this, I wanna visit with this one specific question. In your mind, is there a particular posture that an armed citizen could take after post-engagement, you know, the post-shooting, so that when the law enforcement arrives, it's more likely that they're gonna take that heartbeat and question whether this is the backup. In other words, is it keeping the gun in a sole position? Is it being on one knee? Is it a hand over the head? Assuming that, you know, they've contacted a threat, the threat's down, but they don't know the condition of the threat. So they're potentially still guarding the threat with a gun. Is there a particular posture that you think might help tip the scales?
Billy Perry:
I teach my employees, and I would say to other people, I would say, don't have it in your hands when they get there. I would say, be unarmed when they get there. Whether you've secured it in a holster and you have your hands up. I've got a, I'm Billy the citizen, I shot him, I took him down, my pistol's in my holster or whatever, or have it over on a table, have it somewhere else. And say, that's my pistol over there, that's my firearm over there. I would recommend not having it in your hands and you have a very non-threatening posture.
Bill Godfrey:
Ron, any thoughts?
Ron Otterbacher:
I agree. The more, when we're arriving at a shooting situation, our intensity is gonna be escalated. Our determination to make it home that night is gonna be escalated. And how we respond to the situation, how we respond to the perceived threat. It may not be a threat, but if we perceive it as a threat, we're gonna respond differently. So I think the better chance we have, that's why when we teach the active shooter, we tell everyone, have their hands, don't have your phone in your hand, have your hands up, do everything they say, don't argue with anybody. It's the same thing here. The more you can show them that you're complying with every request they have, the better chance for you to come out okay.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay. So let me switch gears to this topic that in a perfect world, if you could design a training program or a preparation program for armed citizens who were concerned about enough about this to get some additional training, what would be included in that training in your mind? Ron, you wanna throw out a couple items and we'll go from there?
Ron Otterbacher:
First thing is firearm safety. You know, understanding how the firearm works, understanding how you can make it so, you know, if you need to clear your weapon, how, you know, the safety part of it is important, knowing that you don't laser anyone with your weapon. You know, it's not pointing at someone.
Bill Godfrey:
Can you explain what you mean by when you say don't laser anyone?
Ron Otterbacher:
It's bringing your barrel across someone else's position or body or anything like that. You just, you know, if Billy were in front of me, my weapon should be off to the side and down, or even if it's still up, it should be off to the side where he's not threatened in case I have an unintentional discharge or anything like that. It's just a part of weapons discipline, but it all comes to safety. There's so many things of safety that, again, we go to these people, just bought a gun from a gun store, no one's taught them anything about safety because there's no training requirement that went along with the law.
Bill Godfrey:
Billy?
Billy Perry:
Man, there's a lot. And piggybacking with Ron, I would also look, and I look for it every time I teach a class, I look at weapons manipulation. I look at how you handle it. Not just are you aware of the muzzle like Ron's talking about, but how you manipulate the weapon. Can you lock the slide of the rear? Can you do a magazine change? Can you clear a malfunction? Can you drive it? Can you, with a modicum of proficiency? I would do that.
A lot of shooting discrimination, a lot. A lot of getting the weapon to bear. Like, where are you carrying it? Are you carrying it in your pocket? Are you carrying it on the inside of the waistband holes? Are you carrying it on the outside? Do you move your shirt? Are you wearing a Magnum PI shirt? What are you doing? How you do it.
Again, coupled with that. And believe it or not, it's important, it's very important, but down the list is marksmanship. And you have citizens, I can shoot this, I can shoot that. And I go to the range, I shoot my personal hunting rifles and whatnot. And I'm working up loads and I see them shoot and they can shoot pretty well. Once they're there, in position, no stress, and I think that's a complete game changer. And we're all trainers. And one of the things that we know that most people do not, all training is not good training. Good training is good training. And also, these are perishable skills. And when was the last time you did this? If you did this in the Reagan era, A, your training is outdated, and it's gone, it's perished, 'cause it is perishable.
And I think you have to stay current, we're not professors. And one of the other thing, we don't take a Hippocratic oath, but we should. And I think, friendly fire isn't. And one of the questions that I ask everybody that I deal with is say, what's the percentage of shots that good guys shoot that miss? And the answer is zero, 'cause every one of them hits something. And we're responsible for every one of them. There you go.
Bill Godfrey:
Good point. Bruce, I know when, so a couple of challenges I've run into, so I'm actually a pretty good shot when I do what Billy described earlier. I have a time to get set, to come to bear, and I can put in a really tight grouping at a good distance. And then I had a range instructor one time have me jog in place for a couple of minutes, which I really enjoyed, and then try to come to bear and shoot, and I was all over the damn place. I'm like, okay, lesson learned. The other challenge that I ran into is a lot of the ranges where I shoot at, they won't let you draw from the holster.
Billy Perry:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
'Cause they're afraid about you shooting your leg or somebody else, I guess, as you're drawing. I don't know.
Billy Perry:
They're not afraid of it. They know it'll happen.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, as a safety rule. Bruce, what are your thoughts on that? What have you run into?
Bruce Scott:
I agree with you 100%, but I can tell you, if you're gonna take on, we talked about this good guy carrying a gun, right? And that's gonna happen, especially where we live. Somebody in that is carrying a weapon, right? Take the time to get the training, right? To do it right.
But also include, even if you are the good guy and you take the bad guy down, all right, so you've stopped the killing, you still gotta stop the dying piece of this that we teach, right? Do you know how to do direct threat care? Do you know how to do tourniquets? Do you know how to do direct pressure, recovery position? So if you're gonna take the time to learn how you act during an active shooter situation, take the time to look at how you're gonna take care of the folks that are injured as well. And take that as just as important.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bruce Scott:
In my opinion. So I think that that's, to me, is one of the most hugely important things is, I tell my wife all the time, we'll go into a store and I'm like, all right, something happens, what's the way out? Right? And 99% of the people you talk to think the way out is the way you came in.
And so I've tried to convey to her that, I've had to convey to her that that's not necessarily the case. Right? So watch for those lighted exit signs. Is there something closer that you can get out of the building? I don't know that I answered your question directly, Bill, but I think that as from a training perspective, if you're gonna take the time and do the training to use your firearm safely, to actually help eliminate that threat, then take the time to learn how to do at least direct threat care, stop the bleed, if you will.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, and look, this is gonna be a sensitive and polarizing topic, I know. And that's okay.
Billy Perry:
That's okay.
Bill Godfrey:
What we're saying is, if you care enough about this to be the person that's in a position to make a difference and save lives, then care enough about it to get a little bit extra training to better equip yourself to be that person that's in that position to save lives. It's not a ton of investment and a little bit of training can go a long way. Maintaining your basic skills, doing some of these other things, paying attention to what you're doing, knowing how to provide the basic medical care for controlling the bleeding after, knowing how to not get shot when the cops show up because they've mistaken you as the bad guy, and now you've become part of the problem instead of part of the solution, and potentially lost your life. If on the other hand, you're a cowboy that wants to yell "Yee-haw," then there's not a lot that we can tell you that's gonna do any damn good at all.
Ron Otterbacher:
And explain to people what your responsibilities are. My first officer-involved shooting, it went well, had a patrol commander across the street, had a TAC commander right next to me, but I was counseled because as soon as we shot the guy and secured him, then I went to work on him because I was a paramedic at the time, and I was obligated by law, not only morally obligated, but I was obligated by law to work on him. They said, "Well, you worked on him too soon." I said, "No, I didn't." We secured him, we secured the weapons, then I started working on him, and he made it to the hospital, did fine.
But again, having them understand that's your priority, we go back to the safety priority. Now this is now, was he a bad guy just a minute ago? Yeah, he was, but that's over. So now we're doing what we're required to do, and being prepared to do that is a second thing.
Bruce Scott:
Which leads me into something I wanted to mention, Bill. We talk about the NTOA's priority of life, right? And so if I get in there as a paramedic and I see this good guy that had a gun is now injured, and there's a weapon laying beside him, that moves him or her prioritization down, right?
Bill Godfrey:
If you don't know that they were a good guy with a gun. You're thinking they're a bad guy with a gun.
Bruce Scott:
Exactly, so innocents and the responders and then bad guy, right? That's kind of our order of work, right? So they may move them down in my priority list that they necessarily need to be, or should be.
Bill Godfrey:
Because we didn't understand who they were.
Bruce Scott:
Exactly, that's my fear.
Bill Godfrey:
What their role is. The other thing, I do wanna just touch on this, 'cause you talked to, one of you mentioned this earlier, post-engagement. If you're a good guy with a gun and you get engaged in one of these things, law enforcement is going to secure your weapon. They're gonna take your weapon from you. It's not about confiscating it or any of that kind of stuff. And oh, by the way, this is exactly what happens to other police officers.
Billy Perry:
I was about to say, they take ours, it's okay.
Bill Godfrey:
Exactly. So I mean, I think, Ron, you mentioned it. If you've been shot and you're injured, you can lose track mentally of what's going on. So there's a safety reason that we would take your weapon away. But also from an investigative purpose, everything else, when there's a post-engagement with a law enforcement shooting, that law enforcement officer's gun, that gun that was involved in the shooting is secured.
Billy Perry:
Sure, 100% of the time.
Bill Godfrey:
And as a good guy with a gun, if you get engaged, you should expect that law enforcement's gonna secure your weapon.
Billy Perry:
And it's temporary, it's temporary if everything was fine. And they're gonna count the weapons, they're gonna count the rounds, they're gonna account for all of them and how many of them were missing. And again, even though you're not a professional, that's where the professionalism of carrying a gun comes into play. And again, I'm as politically correct as a cactus. I'm a huge constitutional rights person. And a lot of people do carry. I cannot remember the last trip I made to Publix where I did not see somebody imprinting, where I didn't see a gun on somebody in Publix. I can't remember the last. Would you agree?
Bruce Scott:
Yeah, 100%. Walmart too.
Billy Perry:
And there you go. And I think if anybody that doesn't believe it, next time you're at Walmart or Publix-
Bill Godfrey:
Or any other big box-
Billy Perry:
Any other big box store-
Bill Godfrey:
Not to be mentioned, brand name store, so I don't get a cease and desist from these corporations, guys.
Billy Perry:
It's a positive.
But people are carrying. And I think that they do have that responsibility. And that's why, for my people that work with and for me, I inspect their magazines. Everything has to be topped off, quality hollow point ammunition. I won't say what we use. It's fully topped off because they do count the rounds. They do account for them all. Knowing where they go, what they do. If you're going to carry, you need to know the ammo that you carry. You need to know why you carry the ammo that you carry. You need to know what size and weight, grain, what the muzzle velocity is. You need to know that. It's written on the box. So that when you're at, 'cause it's a big deal. Even if you kill a really, really bad guy, it's still a homicide investigation. And it's a big deal, is it not?
Ron Otterbacher:
Yes, sir.
Billy Perry:
So there you go.
Bruce Scott:
I think my question would be, you said earlier, they're responsible for every round.
Billy Perry:
Every round.
Bruce Scott:
What's the ramification? You decide to be the cowboy as you, and all of a sudden-
Bill Godfrey:
Yee-haw.
Bruce Scott:
Yeah, and you hit an innocent person, right? The person, a civilian, what is the, what should they be thinking about before they make that decision, right? And so the time to think about it to me would be today.
Billy Perry:
Agreed, agreed. And in Florida, Statute 776 denotes what is justifiable use of force and what isn't. And I think that as a carrier, you need to know that backwards and forwards, and know the times that you can and cannot shoot. And I think you'd be, if you're, if there's no malice, there's no intent, I think you'd be, the chances of you being criminally charged are gonna be lessened.
However, you are civilly liable for, and I don't bandy that word about loosely, because again, when people hit me with, there's too much liability, I'm like, pull out your Google machine and find the last time somebody was successfully litigated for that. You're gonna find out that if you add 'em all up and carry the one, it's zero. But this one is true. This one does have liability. And I think if you shoot Ethel buying a gallon of skim milk when you're trying to shoot Evil Earnest, I think you may have a, you're gonna have a civil problem.
Ron Otterbacher:
It comes back to the negligence of the situation too. If you were negligent in firing your weapon and you've never trained on it, that's what we go back to. And you hurt someone, then you can be criminally liable too.
Bill Godfrey:
And I also wanna point out that the context of these specific legal comments are coming from the point of view of the state of Florida from a law enforcement perspective. When you expand this very discussion across the country, my gut tells me that you're in some places, your chances of being criminally charged are much higher.
Billy Perry:
Exponentially increased.
Bill Godfrey:
And so, I don't think you can rule that out. But I think that's just part of the, as a guy that carries, that's part of the decision that you make when you decide to carry. 'Cause you're saying, I have this with the potential of using it and I have to accept the fact that I'm responsible for how it gets used.
Billy Perry:
Well, you know, and I'll one up that. I think that it's not just a decision to carry, I think it's a commitment. And I think when you make that commitment to do that, 'cause you are now introducing a firearm into every situation that you're entering into. 'Cause even if you have to go hands-on with somebody that's doing something inappropriate in front of you, you've now entered a firearm into that. And I think it's a commitment and you have made a commitment to educate yourselves in the ability to handle that firearm and the knowledge of whatever state, like you said, 'cause you're right, for Florida it's 776, for other states, whatever it is. You know, you have to be able to know that and know what the ramifications are.
Ron Otterbacher:
And have that same commitment to retain your firearm.
Billy Perry:
100%.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Bruce Scott:
That's my fear. It's been so long since I've even taken any kind of formal training. That's my fear. I haven't made that commitment and I'm sure most of the concealed folks out there haven't either.
Billy Perry:
Agreed.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, it comes with an awesome responsibility. That level of commitment to be armed, whether you're a civilian or a police officer.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
It comes with an awesome, awesome responsibility.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for drilling down on this topic. And for those that are listening, we hope that you enjoyed it. If you have some questions or thoughtful comments, by all means, please shoot them our way. We're always happy to engage in serious conversation and serious context about these topics. The whole point of these podcasts is for people to learn and for training value and for things to get better and not get worse.
And with that, Karla, thank you very much. Our producer, Karla Torres, for taking care of us as always. And until next time, stay safe.