Ep 112: RTF Deployment Teamwork
Episode 112
Published May 23, 2025
Last updated Mar 5, 2026
Duration: 32:46
Episode Summary
Rescue Task Forces (RTFs) bring together police, fire, and EMS to save lives during emergencies. Today’s episode highlights that planning, clear communication, and joint briefings before going into dangerous situations help everyone understand their roles, build trust, and move quickly and safely to treat and evacuate the injured.
Episode Notes
Today’s episode takes a close look at how police, fire, and EMS come together to form Rescue Task Forces (RTFs) and why true interagency teamwork is essential for saving lives during high-risk incidents. The episode emphasizes that successful RTF deployment depends on much more than just assembling personnel; it requires careful pre-deployment briefings, clear communication about roles and expectations, and a unified approach to movement and safety as the team enters potentially dangerous environments.
Before deploying, RTF members -comprised of both law enforcement officers and fire/EMS personnel – must understand who is responsible for medical decisions and who controls team movement. Law enforcement provides security and directs the team's movement, while medical personnel focus on triage and patient care; both elements must trust each other and communicate constantly to adapt to changing threats and patient needs.
The episode also highlights the importance of sequencing and structure. RTFs are not sent in until law enforcement has secured a "warm zone" or "warm pocket," and tactical, triage, and transport supervisors are working side by side to manage resources and information flow. This integrated approach ensures that teams can move quickly and safely, avoid confusion, and maximize the number of lives saved. The discussion makes clear that practicing these skills and building relationships in non-crisis settings is crucial, so that when a real emergency happens, the team operates as a cohesive unit.
Ultimately, "RTF Deployment Teamwork" demonstrates that effective teamwork-built on communication, trust, and shared objectives-directly impacts the speed and safety of casualty care and evacuation during critical incidents. The episode serves as a practical guide for first responders and agencies seeking to improve their coordinated response to complex emergencies.
View this episode on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/6h18R1em7I4
Transcript
Bill Godfrey:The term Rescue Task Force means a lot of things to a lot of people and sometimes they don't line up really well. But today we're gonna talk about what a Rescue Task Force is about and how to practice it in the real world. Stick around.
Welcome to the Active Shooter Incident Management Podcast. My name is Bill Godfrey your podcast host. I am joined by three of my other fellow instructors here at the National Center for Integrated Emergency Response. I got Billy Perry here to my left. Billy, good to have you back.
Billy Perry:
Good to be back, Bill.
Bill Godfrey:
And Chad Lake. I think that was the same seat you were in last time, Chad.
Chad Lake:
I think it was. It's comfortable.
Bill Godfrey:
All right. Welcome back in.
Chad Lake:
Thank you sir.
Bill Godfrey:
And Ron Otterbacher back in the house.
Ron Otterbacher:
Thank you.
Bill Godfrey:
Alright, so today's topic is Rescue Task Forces, which has really kind of taken a life on its own in terms of defining it. There are some organizations that have defined it very narrowly and and use it in a hyper niche way. And then there's others, like us, that have taken a little bit more broad term to it. So let's talk first about what a Rescue Task Force is. Its primary responsibilities, what that looks like, sounds like, feels like. And then we'll tangent into how to do some of those in real life. Sound good?
Billy Perry:
Sounds great.
Bill Godfrey:
Alright. Chad, you wanna lead off? Rescue Task Force. What is its mission, purpose, et cetera?
Chad Lake:
Well, Rescue Task Force has a medical element to it, combined with a security detail assigned to protecting the medical element. Depending on the situation the teams bring up, we are going to be deployed into a warm zone that is already secured to go assess, triage, treat and remove casualties.
Bill Godfrey:
There's a fairly concise description of what it is. It's a medical team and the staffing on that medical team has a responsibility of doing medical work and some of the staff have the responsibility to provide security. Billy, does that mean that they have to be two cops and two fire EMS people?
Billy Perry:
No, it does not. It means it can be fluid, it can change. I think the biggest thing that needs to be remembered, is it is a medical team. It is not a hunter killer team. It is a medical team. Now they are there and they do have teeth if they're engaged and or attacked or if the opportunity presents itself right there. But it, you know, we're not hamstrung or boxed into a a certain number.
Bill Godfrey:
I Like that. Ron, your thoughts on the team makeup?
Ron Otterbacher:
Again, ideally we'd like the medical component to be...
Bill Godfrey:
Medical people?
Ron Otterbacher:
Advanced medical. But there may be times when it's strictly law enforcement going in as the RTF and in that respect the law enforcement officers assigned to the medical function of that need to understand that is their function to render aid to people that are injured. And then they still got a security component also. You know, the ideal thing is, and that's what we're talking about here, is practice what you're gonna do in real life. And there's many opportunities to do that. Practicing that may be thinking outside the box will bring it so it's a more cohesive team as we deploy 'em in high risk situations.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, I think that's one of the interesting things I hear about from some folks. They feel like, oh well the RTF is only when you're mixing, you're mixing EMS people with law enforcement, if it's all law enforcement, you have to call 'em by a different name. You have to call 'em the rescue team or the go grab 'em and drag them team or whatever. And fundamentally that's just not really the case. It's, we use the term task force. It comes from NIMS and ICS in the sense that it's talking about mixed discipline. And to your point, it may be four or five police officers, but some of those police officers have to be assigned to the medical duties 'cause they're gonna be carrying medical equipment, you know, bags, dressings, you know, airway stuff. Maybe
Billy Perry:
Tourniquets.
Bill Godfrey:
Tourniquets, maybe drag and carry devices, things like that. But they're gonna have stuff in their hands, they're not gonna be on their weapons.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Chad Lake:
And it's still a mixed discipline. You got EMS discipline and protection discipline.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Chad Lake:
It's just you're still wearing the same clothing.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Chad Lake:
So in the same uniform, you're just on a different discipline
Billy Perry:
Same costume, different job.
Chad Lake:
Absolutely.
Bill Godfrey:
I like it. That's a perfect way to say it.
Billy Perry:
Yeah.
Bill Godfrey:
Alright, so let's go through the very basics of the job of the Rescue Task Force. And let's start with the first one through the door. And along the way let's also address the size of these task forces. So Ron, first Rescue Task Force through the door, big team or a small team?
Ron Otterbacher:
I would keep it fairly small. You wanna move quick. You want to, once you get in, you can assess the situation at hand. You may expand your teams coming in because you're either more sure of your warm zone being secure or you know, at least security elements in place. And so you may decide to expand it once you see what's at hand. But initially I wanna move quick, I wanna move safely. And again, they're moving with the security component in charge of the movement. They're not in charge of the team, they're just in charge of the movement. They determine where to go. They've talked to tactical, they've talked to the, you know, contact teams. They know where it's safe to move and how it's safe to move. And then once they get in there, it becomes a medical component and they take charge and the security component is simply there for that. They're forced security, nothing else. They don't leave their side for anything.
Bill Godfrey:
And Billy, that's a really good point Ron just made is the senior medical person on the medical team is the one that's in charge of the team, but they don't get a vote in how they move or where they move. That's...
Billy Perry:
That's correct.
Bill Godfrey:
That's the security team's department.
Billy Perry:
That's the security element. And the size of the team, to piggyback on what Otter's saying, the size of the team depends on what the venue is. Like if you're outside, I want bigger. If you're inside, I want smaller.
Bill Godfrey:
Travel light and fast. Tell me why you want, why do you want the team, the first team through the door a little bit smaller, more maneuverable?
Billy Perry:
In a building because it's not as hard to secure a room. It's hard to secure an outside. We had a podcast about big outdoor venues.
Bill Godfrey:
Yes.
Billy Perry:
That's hard. And if you don't know where the shooter is, you need 360 security. When you take a room, regardless of the room, you need to cover doors.
Bill Godfrey:
The end.
Billy Perry:
The end.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay.
Billy Perry:
That's it.
Bill Godfrey:
Alright, very good. So, and that is one of the, as we move on on this, that's one of the reasons that we don't advocate or we advocate against, I guess I should say, defining in your policy the numbers and the size of your RTF. Because your first team, from a tactical perspective or from a law enforcement security perspective, we would like 'em to be a little bit lighter, a little bit more maneuverable. But to your point, Ron, once that first team gets in there and sees what they've got, the second team might be a whole lot more people.
Ron Otterbacher:
Right.
Billy Perry:
Right. More robust.
Bill Godfrey:
More robust. More robust with people with equipment, things that they need to get it done.
Billy Perry:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
All the above.
Billy Perry:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay.
Ron Otterbacher:
And that also allows for your follow on responders to get there. You know, we may be deploying the first team fairly quickly. Even a Rescue Task Force in my mind needs to be deployed as quickly as possible, as safely as possible. But expanding teams after that allows for more follow on responders to get there, maybe expand the team size and function.
Billy Perry:
Yeah. Because what what they gather going in there is intelligence. They know what they're walking into. They can now report back real time boots on the ground. This is exactly what you've got. If you come here, you can do this. If you go here, you can do this.
Bill Godfrey:
I like it. I like it.
Chad Lake:
With the fire EMS side too, with that first team being light is that they might be doing the initial triaging, or more accurate triaging from what the contact teams purveyed down to to tactical. So they might want to be able to move quick to also let triage know, listen, we have this amount of injured and this is the criticality of them and this is the, we're gonna need more tourniquets, more patient movers, whatever the case may be. To relay that information down. If I'm overloaded with equipment, trying to do a rapid triage of what do I actually have and try to get as accurate information I can to get the resources in. And like Ron said, the resources might not even be there yet. So come prepared with it.
Bill Godfrey:
You know, it's interesting, I think in a perfect world, in a perfect world and of course these calls never go perfectly. But in a perfect world, the contact team that's already down range is going to get, they're going to get a room secured, set up as a Casualty Collection Point and they're gonna begin assembling some of the casualties, if not all of them. And in a perfect world, that first Rescue Task Force is moving into an established Casualty Collection Point that has security and has the casualties assembled. In a perfect world.
Billy Perry:
In a perfect world. In an even more perfect world, the Rescue Task Forces have worked together in the past. They actually know each other's lingo. And while the medical assets are providing triage and actual medical, the trigger pullers are not just sitting around waiting to trigger pull. They're actually looking going, that would make a great CCP that would make a great AEP. I could put 'em both there while they're doing tags and doing whatever. And then they can say, hey, and they can talk to the medical component. Hey, I think we could put an an ambulance exchange point and a CCP right here and and coalesce like that.
Bill Godfrey:
Exactly.
Billy Perry:
That would be the most perfect world.
Bill Godfrey:
It would be. It would be. And I've seen people hit that occasionally, but it is, it is a little rare. But the idea of being a first team going through the door, you don't really know. You said you're picking up intelligence, you don't really know what they're gonna see.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
So Chad, in some cases you might be dropping into a CCP that's already secured and in some cases you might be just getting into the vicinity of where the injured are and you have to get a CCP sorted out.
Chad Lake:
Correct. Yeah.
Bill Godfrey:
And that's, that's, that's doable. Now you gotta be careful about having the security element of your Rescue Task Force being responsible for the security of the CCP because that can get a little dicey if you've got to move again. 'cause you don't wanna leave it unsecured once you've secured it. Right?
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
So we drop in, we get that first team in. If you've got a CCP, great. If you don't get one set, we gotta get numbers out on the casualties. And what about, you mentioned earlier the severity levels of getting 'em out and the color codes. Talk a little bit about what those responsibilities are on that first team for getting the numbers and the triage done quickly.
Chad Lake:
Well it's gotta be accurate. And we know that a yellow can turn into a red rather quickly. Green can turn into a yellow rather quickly for not treating. Trying to get the severity out to tactical or triage to talk to transport to make sure that we have those resources there because, and the AEP trying to find out what that is. 'cause is it right outside of the CCP, which would be most perfect ideal situation. Or are we gonna have to move those severity patients down a hallway down some stairs out to another AEP? We're gonna need people for that. So obviously we want to get the reds out as fast as possible. How many reds do I have?
Do I have five? Do I have 50? Right? So then do I have the resources there as well? Trying to get all that information out is super critical. And you can also use your law enforcement because radio traffic's gonna be bad. Your security detail to talk to tactical about that too so that everybody's on that same page and we can paint that most accurate picture. And as things change, you have to update. I had 10 yellows, well now I have five yellows. 'cause those yellows are not reds. And their criticality has changed at this point.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. And I think it is important for the person that's working as the triage group supervisor and the transport group supervisor as well, tactical as well to understand that your numbers that you got on the first radio call are probably not gonna match up with the numbers and the colors of anything that happens after that.
Chad Lake:
Correct.
Billy Perry:
When they unkeyed the mic, they were probably different.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, right. Well said.
Chad Lake:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
Well said. So Chad described having to work a long corridor to get down to an AEP, which begs the question about cordons. And in some cases I've seen people refer to cordons as a different tactic or needing a different group of skills. But can't a contact team or two secure a cordon and it's still the same thing?
Billy Perry:
Yes. It's sort of like a perimeter. It doesn't mean we have to be shoulder to shoulder all along the, it just means we can see each other. You can cover it with a platform, a firearms platform.
Ron Otterbacher:
And we allow access and egress from that area.
Billy Perry:
From that area.
Ron Otterbacher:
We're just protecting an area they're moving in.
Billy Perry:
And if you do find, like to regress just a skosh, when you were talking about you don't want to leave a medical team for a CCP, whatever, utilize your contact teams and you can even educate them. Is there an area that's better than this for whatever. Let them find one.
Bill Godfrey:
Absolutely. Find the doubt
Billy Perry:
And let them hold it.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Billy Perry:
And then communicate back and forth. Because that's the other thing with the RTF, you have the medical aspect. Medical branch has a access to the law enforcement communications because of the security element and vice versa, the security element has access to the medical communications because of the medical team. So you can communicate right there on the ground.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. And I I, you know what, we didn't talk about that. Probably important to say, when you are part of the Rescue Task Force, you work for...
Chad Lake:
Triage.
Bill Godfrey:
You work for triage who's working for medical. Yeah. And if you're the security element on that Rescue Task Force, who are you talking to on the radio?
Billy Perry:
Tactical.
Bill Godfrey:
Exactly. And how come,
Billy Perry:
Because I'm still under them.
Bill Godfrey:
You've gotta know what's going on in the
Ron Otterbacher:
Active intelligence.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. If, if something changes, if something kicks off, you need to be on the line with tactical.
Billy Perry:
The rest immediately.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Chad Lake:
It's also the capabilities of your radio system depending on your jurisdiction. Can law enforcement tap into Fire EMS or vice versa?
Billy Perry:
Right.
Chad Lake:
We can't tap into the law enforcement radio channel. So it's important for tactical to understand what the RTFs have as well.
Billy Perry:
That you gotta relay that information.
Chad Lake:
Because they might need, 'cause the RTF law enforcement security say, Hey, I need tactical, I need maybe another contact team here to hold the corridor just in case. So we can take patients outta that corridor into maybe a more secured location or a secured room.
Billy Perry:
Right. To hold the room for the CCP AEP.
Bill Godfrey:
Sure.
Ron Otterbacher:
And like Billy said, it also allows if the medical side of the RTF is up to it in alligators and they're busy and you can't raise 'em on the radio, you can always go to the law enforcement side and have them get them on their channel so that we've got communications, redundant communication.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. It's a little bit of deliberate overlap to make sure things..
Chad Lake:
Layering if you will.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. So that things flow a little bit smoother.
All right, so first RTF through the door if you don't have a Casualty Collection Point, get your casualties assembled and get a place where you've got some securities so that you can do some work. Get your initial triage done, get your counts and your triage up to the triage group supervisor, radioed up and request the resources that you need. Billy, you mentioned this earlier, start talking about the AEP.
Billy Perry:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
So these are all things that should happen very, very quickly. Very quickly that quick assessment, the quick numbers, the quick count, a quick discussion about where the AEP is and then let the security people do the security things and get the AEP taken care of and go to work on patients.
Chad Lake:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
So we'll talk a little bit more about the second RTF coming through the door. One of the, well actually let's go there now. So when you are the first RTF and you've done your initial triage, whether it's START or SALT or whatever method you're using, okay, great. You got seven reds, which red's more serious? And that comes down to medical judgment, unfortunately.
Billy Perry:
Right?
Bill Godfrey:
Because START and other triage systems, they only get you superficially there. They don't get you
Chad Lake:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
There. And so there's some prioritization to who's the most severe red, who's the most severe yellow, who's the most severe green? And getting them organized. Because at some point when the AEP does get set and you got an ambulance there, who are the first people out the door?
Ron Otterbacher:
The most severe.
Ron Otterbacher:
Should be the most severe.
Bill Godfrey:
It should be.
Chad Lake:
Should be.
Bill Godfrey:
It should be. But of course if you've got one medic in the back of the rig, can they take two critical reds?
Chad Lake:
No.
Billy Perry:
No.
Bill Godfrey:
And so that becomes part of the balancing equation and certainly knowing your local area.
So Chad, you're inside, you're on that first RTF, you're the RTF boss in the room. You've got a sense of where your criticals are and how they're lying. Second RTF shows up, you got a little bit bigger team, right? Let's say they came with a security element of two, but you've got four, five, or six people that are part of the medical team. What's your direction to them gonna be?
Chad Lake:
Do we have an AEP set up or not? Because if we have an AEP set up, I can use that second RTF team to start transporting those people down to that AEP and moving them. Hopefully that second RTF team brought in extra equipment. If I gave them that
Billy Perry:
Right
Chad Lake:
Because how much equipment did I have? How many tourniquets do I have? How many, you know, bandages and gauzes, you know, obviously I'm not coming in with cardiac monitors, but how much of the stop the bleed stuff do I do I need? So they're bringing in that stuff. So then we can start doing that indirect treatment to hopefully prolong further criticality. But that second RTF team's coming in with extra equipment, obviously I have the extra hands and then if I have that AEP set up, take the critical, let 'em get 'em going. And that's going to be that direct correlation between triage and transport. Making sure that I have that constant flow of transport units if I do have it. If I don't, then I'm gonna have to hold back and start treating and hopefully prolonging the dying.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, if your second RTF through the door is actually fairly quick, Johnny on the spot coming in behind you, you may not even have finished assessing patients. You may say, Hey I, you know,
Billy Perry:
This is where I stopped
Bill Godfrey:
This is where I stopped. I need you to grab those three in the corner.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
Or if you've gotten a pretty good first pass, you may be able to say those two over there are the most serious.
Chad Lake:
They need to go.
Bill Godfrey:
Get 'em, you know, get 'em, do whatever treatment you've got and get 'em ready to go out the door. And then maybe the third RTF is the one that that shuttles shuttles the bodies and you just keep working it.
Now what is different when you end up with more than one Casualty Collection Point? How does that complicate things for the Rescue Task Forces?
Ron Otterbacher:
You need to coordinate between the two Casualty Collection Points and try and make a determination who's more serious and that would also require extra RTFs to manage the two areas plus get other resources in to help them move patients to the AEP when we determine it's time.
Billy Perry:
Plus other contact teams for security.
Ron Otterbacher:
Multiple for security for us,
Chad Lake:
And making sure everybody's aware of the labeling of it.
Billy Perry:
What everything is.
Bill Godfrey:
Tell me more about that.
Chad Lake:
We can't say, alright, we're Casualty Collection Point One, Casualty Collection Point Two. Well where's One and Two at? Maybe give it a room number if you're in a school. Casualty Collection Point, room 103, Casualty Collection Point library, north side, south side. North's up for me south is down. Right. So be careful. Make sure everybody's on the same page. RTF four, I need you to report to Casualty Collection Point at the library.
Billy Perry:
Right. More important, you can't just say the collect Casualty Collection Point. You can't just say the CCP 'cause you'll be like, we emptied the CCP,
Ron Otterbacher:
Right.
Chad Lake:
I'm here, yeah.
Billy Perry:
Right, but there's two of them or three, and that and that's reality.
Chad Lake:
And that's gonna happen with your AEPs as well.
Billy Perry:
A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Bill Godfrey:
And Billy, I know you've been at, as Ron has as well, the coach at the tactical position during training. When they get to these more complex scenarios where there's two or sometimes three Casualty Collection Points, how difficult is, how much does that increase the difficulty level for tactical and the triage group supervisors?
Billy Perry:
If they're unorganized, exponentially, if they're organized and stay on top of it and press discipline, then not as bad. Not near as bad, not near as bad. Still
Bill Godfrey:
Suboptimal but not
Billy Perry:
Suboptimal
Bill Godfrey:
But not a complete train wreck.
Billy Perry:
Right. But not insurmountable. Yeah.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay. Alright. Very good. So I think that kind of covers the basics. So it's essentially rinse and repeat
Billy Perry:
Right
Bill Godfrey:
From there on out. The casualties all need to go. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the numbers. Make sure that you're using some medical judgment to assess of your seven reds, which one needs to go first, second, and third. So now let's switch gears and talk a little bit about opportunities in the real world to practice Rescue Task Force skillsets not in, you know, not used on an active shooter call. So what are some of the events that you think are opportunities to exercise the Rescue Task Forces?
Billy Perry:
We use 'em at at football games?
Bill Godfrey:
Okay, tell me more.
Billy Perry:
We incorporate Rescue Task Forces at all the Jaguar games, Florida-Georgia. Anything that's a big venue like that. We deploy Rescue Task Forces.
Bill Godfrey:
And how does that work out? How does it go over, what's the goodness of doing all that?
Billy Perry:
The goodness is, and you've heard me say it before, you do not want your first time doing anything the first day of the big game. You don't want the Super Bowl to be, not literally the Super Bowl, but you don't want your big, your big, this is it this is the call, the first time you ever did a Rescue Task Force, a breach, or whatever. You don't want that to be that day. You want to be well versed in it. And this is where everybody needs to become familiar with each other.
Bill Godfrey:
Okay. Ron, you got any eyes?
Ron Otterbacher:
I think you'd do it anytime you've got a deployment of fire personnel and law enforcement personnel. If they've got a drunk and a crowd of people, law enforcement's gonna respond, fire's gonna respond. Why don't they respond together? It gives them the opportunity to work together, understand what each other's doing, get to know each other.
Bill Godfrey:
And each other's tactics.
Ron Otterbacher:
Right. And practice moving as a team.
Billy Perry:
It builds comfort and confidence.
Bill Godfrey:
It also helps familiarize you with people on the other side that you otherwise haven't met, haven't talked to.
Billy Perry:
True.
Bill Godfrey:
Gives you a chance to learn each other's lingo.
Billy Perry:
A hundred percent. A hundred percent and comfortable with the tactics. And like it or not, it's, it's better optics.
Chad Lake:
I like to establish that relationship before. You know, I want, let me know your name and then what are your expectations of me from law enforcement to the fireside. What happens if things go south? Things present itself right now and we need to take cover or we need to retreat. What is that? What are your expectations of me? And then what are my expectations of you? If we have to treat people in a un probably comfortable spot like a corridor that's not super secured, you say, Hey, you have 30 seconds, I need two minutes, I have 15 people down. I can't just grab and go. Type of thing. So, and we need to have those conversations again before the big game.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. Yeah. And on, so Billy, you mentioned doing that at games. Does this apply to all pre-planned events? I mean, Chad, could you see, you know, you've got an outdoor concert. You've got a county fair.
Billy Perry:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
You've got
Billy Perry:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
You know the, the big graduation ceremony and it's gonna bring in 10,000 people.
Billy Perry:
The big concert both inside and outside.
Bill Godfrey:
Yes. Inside and outside venues. Does it make sense to do an IEP and actually structure the Rescue Task Force and those teams ahead of time?
Chad Lake:
Yes, absolutely.
Billy Perry:
A hundred percent.
Chad Lake:
Absolutely. And then like, you know, the big conventions that we have, you know, especially in, you know, central Florida, we have MegaCon, ComicCon, presidential details. I mean, we do have to get together and again, pre-plan that and train and we can do mock scenarios, we can do mock exercises and just on every command staff of it. We don't have to do a one full blown out drill every single time. We can do just an RTF drill, a contact team drill. And when you do a contact team, yeah, obviously that's law enforcement, but bring the fireside in there so we can understand what the contact teams or the contact teams understand what the RTFs responsibilities and what that movement and what that working together as a team look like.
Ron Otterbacher:
I think the bigger question is does it make sense not to do it?
Chad Lake:
That's a good point.
Ron Otterbacher:
You know, it's an opportunity for us to work together. It's far harder to tell a friend no than it is to tell somebody you don't know at all. So by those relationships you build and having an understanding of what the needs are, then you can say, yeah, this is an easy thing, let's do it. And it's gonna serve both sides of it well, all three sides of it. 'cause it's gonna serve the community well too.
Billy Perry:
Right. And assuming that each other, to go back to what Chad said, assuming that each other knows what the other's jobs and responsibility is, is ridiculous. That's something that has to be established early. And I think even if you can't do it on a patrol level, I think if your jurisdiction is at, is of the, the size let your specialized teams train, interact, where wherever it is the mobile field force, let them interact. So at least they get to know each other. They get to know the lingo and you can talk about how we're gonna do this. This is what I'm gonna do, this is what I'm, when I say this, this is what I mean when you say this, this is what, you know what I mean?
Bill Godfrey:
I do. I do. And I would say from my perspective, I think it's a great opportunity to have conversations about things that otherwise might not come up. For example, you know, and I say this in training a lot to law enforcement officers, never assume that the fire and EMS people that you've been assigned to as your Rescue Task Force know jack about operating in a tactical environment.
Billy Perry:
Correct?
Chad Lake:
Absolutely.
Bill Godfrey:
I found out all kinds of, by attending some contact team training, I found out all kinds of things about how to move a little bit more deliberately that keeps me a little safer. Some of the terminology, some of the things to watch out for, I learned what the X was,
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
And why it was important not
Billy Perry:
To not be on it.
Bill Godfrey:
To not be on it. You know, that stuff is foreign really to the fire and EMS side,
Ron Otterbacher:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
And so I think those are great things for law enforcement to take an opportunity and talk about that. And I think on the medical side, and Chad I'll come to you after this, on the medical side, I think the thing that I would want to say to law enforcement officers is, look, I, we are in a hurry and we are up against the clock, but not everybody's up against the same clock.
Chad Lake:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
The the person that's been shot in the leg that's got a tourniquet on, that's the tourniquet has absolutely controlled, if not stopped, the bleeding, is a much lower priority than the guy that's taken a round to the chest.
Billy Perry:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
Or that's got a round in the belly and is shocky even though the leg wound is screaming and the other guy is quiet. And so there's these subtleties in the medical prioritization. And while we appreciate the help of, of, well let's just grab him and get outta here. Okay, let's grab this guy that took a round two rounds to the chest,
Billy Perry:
Right?
Bill Godfrey:
And let's get him first because the guy that you're about to drag out can wait.
Chad Lake:
Yes.
Bill Godfrey:
And what are the other things that pop in your mind, Chad, that would be helpful for law enforcement to know that is not terribly obvious on the fire EMS side?
Chad Lake:
Well, sometimes the, like I said, the gunshot to the leg that's screaming, that's good. You're screaming. I know you're breathing. It's the gunshot to the abdomen or the chest that they're not moving that like, oh, well, you know, he's fine. He's comfortable. He's just taking a nap.
Billy Perry:
He's getting cyanotic.
Chad Lake:
Right! Like that blue isn't makeup. Right? So let's address that.
Bill Godfrey:
It's what the FBI calls a clue.
Chad Lake:
Right. So trying to incorporate that into getting law enforcement to realize some of that stuff. And again, I might have to bypass some of those screaming injuries to get to the ones that aren't screaming. And do they understand that? Because, you know, you don't, nobody likes hearing somebody scream. They want to, Hey, get that, get that out
Billy Perry:
That's relationships. That's relationships.
Chad Lake:
That's relationships, right? It's like, listen, I, maybe you can talk to them, and I can go address some of the more seriousness,
Billy Perry:
Right?
Chad Lake:
And, and trying to get that. But you, the only way that can happen is if you train together and you build those relationships up.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. Completely agreed. I, you know, the tendency to want to get 'em out, get 'em out, get 'em out. I certainly understand that and we want to get 'em out. But if you've got a patient that's taken a round or two to the chest and you are seeing some signs that this is either a sucking chest wound or maybe a very unstable pneum or maybe a hemo pneumo, you might wanna get a chest seal on it. And if you've got, and that's a right now, right now problem, if you're starting to see some indications that it's sucking, and likewise, if you see signs of tension, pneumo, that's a super right now, right now problem.
Chad Lake:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
And it means that we need to decompress it because they're not gonna last very long unless we stabilize that. But those kinds of things, I think they don't happen often.
Billy Perry:
No.
Bill Godfrey:
They're the exception, not the rule. And so sometimes we forget about that in our race to the clock. But I think the thing to remember is, is not everybody's on the same clock.
Ron Otterbacher:
Right?
Bill Godfrey:
We gotta get the critical ones out first.
Chad Lake:
And I think doing some of that medical training with law enforcement, do you know what a sucking chest wound looks like? Do you know what a tension pneumo looks like? What are some signs? 'cause maybe you have a contact team or part of law enforcement maybe helping you, maybe triage if possible. If you have the extra hands and resources and securities taken care of, maybe they can help you. Especially if you have a lot of patients down and you're still waiting on your extra RTFs to come in your extra resources to only a couple people. You only do so much with some with what you have. So maybe they can kind of help you, Hey, this person needs some help now and I don't know how to fix it. Can you fix it? You know.
Bill Godfrey:
Very good. Well gentlemen, thank you for a great engagement on this topic. And for those of you that are listening, if you're struggling with some Rescue Task Force issues, you've got some policy concerns, some questions, things like that, please reach out to us. We're happy to help. You can leave us a comment on YouTube or on the podcast feed. You can send us an email and info@c3pathways.com or just pick up the phone and give us a call. We're happy to help. Thank you to our producer, Karla Torres. And until next time, stay safe.